Once more the Catholic Church is mired in scandal. While the sale of indulgences does not seem to have returned, the church apparently has had serious problems with sexual abuse. These problems include the abuse itself as well as what the church has done (or not done) about it.
While I was horrified and sickened by what I learned about these evil deeds, I also wondered what these incidents tell us about God.
While the misdeeds were done by human beings, those in the church hierarchy claim a special relationship with God. Apparently God did not use this special relationship to guide them away from their crimes. Also, obviously enough, God did nothing to stop these misdeeds. While it is well established that God does not act to help people in general, it might be thought that He would at least take some action when His agents on earth are sexually assaulting children. But, once again, He did nothing. The hierarchy of the church also did little or nothing. The Pope also has really done nothing either. Since he is supposed to be infallible in matters of faith, perhaps it must be inferred that God is fine with what has been done.
Then again, perhaps it makes more sense to infer that there is no one watching over the Catholic Church or the world. No one, that is, other than us.
Of course, the latest sexual abuse horror stories are just more examples in the age old problem of evil. They are, however, more vivid because the misdeeds were perpetrated by priests and then covered up by a church.
Although I have had moments of faith, it is rather hard to believe people who claim that God is a good and cares about us as individuals. I have never seen any evidence of this and, in fact, see a relentless onslaught of evidence to the contrary. If God does exist, He clearly is unwilling or unable to help us, thus making claims about his love seem to be little more than wishful thinking and empty lies.
Naturally, I am open to evidence to the contrary and would love to see clear and verifiable evidence of God acting in a way consistent with His alleged attributes of love, goodness, and so on. Any takers? Oh, no bible stories-unless you can provide objective evidence backing up such tales.
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Only the arrogance of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism would allow one to believe that God is concerned with anyone’s daily life.
If God existed, how could He let those that serve him commit such horrible acts?
The existence of God is compatible with evil, but this requires retooling the concept of God held by many folks. The old Testament God is consistent with the existence of evil, for example.
In the Old Testament God did some pretty evil stuff. I just can’t reconcile that the nature of God changed in the New Testament.
I mean one day He is raining down sulfur and turning people into pillars of salt and the next day He hands the world a get out of hell free card.
Now, if a couple of priest got turned into a pillar of salt I’d convert today!
“Although I have had moments of faith, it is rather hard to believe people who claim that God is a good and cares about us as individuals. I have never seen any evidence of this and, in fact, see a relentless onslaught of evidence to the contrary.”
You sound exactly like Schopenhaur.
So the existance of pleasure doesn’t indicate something else?
How can we be good if we had no other choice but to do good?
“Only the arrogance of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism would allow one to believe that God is concerned with anyone’s daily life.”
Why is that arrogant? It’s either true or it’s not.
Did God tell you what to have for breakfast this morning?
No, He didn’t. Did your significant other tell you what to eat for breakfast.
I guess they don’t care about you.
She tells me not to eat bacon.
Yes. Bacon: The cheat food of all vegetarians.
Such is the power of bacon. Combine it with cheese and a burger for even more power.
It can be argued that the existence of positive value serves as evidence for a benign God. Hume addresses this point and responds by arguing that we would expect more than a mere positive balance in favor of pleasure over pain if an all good, all powerful and all knowing God existed. Hume does argue that God’s existence is compatible with evil, but he contends that mere compatibility is not evidence for His existence. Hume is generally taken as an agnostic rather than an atheist, though. Mainly because he seems to hold that God’s existence cannot be conclusively proven or disproven.
I believe we perceive pain more than we do pleasure. Not that pain is necessarily more prevalent.
I don’t think it comes as a surprise to anyone that priests are sometimes all-too-human.
What I have come to realize is that while I may value truth above happiness, the same cannot be said for the vast majority of people. So while I may be an atheist, I am a quiet one so as not to disturb those who value comfort more than truth.
True, priests are human. But, I also expect mere humans not to molest children.
The world is an overwhelmingly good place; and people are also overwhelmingly good. If this were not a true, empirical fact about the world then insurance companies could not do business, because they count on the fact that good–as opposed to bad–things happen to people (e.g., accidents, illness, crime). I challenge you to step outside your front door, look around, and see how much evil you observe. I agree, evil is certainly occurring somewhere; but good overwhelmingly prevails.
I’m willing to agree that the world has generally more non-evil than evil. To use an example, I tell my students that I know most people are still honest…because lying still works. If lying were the general practice, it would not work.
However, to steal Hume’s argument again, we expect more from a perfect God than just more non-evil than good. Of course, we could drop the “all good” or the “all powerful” or the “all knowing” from God and make this work. For example, perhaps God lacks the power to make things better (“this is the best of all possible worlds”).
What do boy-scout leaders, priests and swimming coaches tell us about pedophilia? Trust and access. That’s the key not the theological trappings, wood craft or kick rate. These men gravitate towards those areas where they are given a trust pass. Add to that all those uncles, husbands and partners automatically granted trust and access and you have a world that is a danger to innocence. Freud could not believe all those stories about abuse that he was getting from his female patients so he worked it up into an Electra Complex. An FBI operation tracking payments to an online child porn site in Texas nailed a TV cook, a judge, solicitors, amongst others amongst others of the great and good in Ireland.
I think that we are only beginning to realise how widespread this perversion is and how it has changed our perceptions. Watch the sport of children in the park and expect suspicion if you’re a man and not a parent.
And Mike, the vein of theological irony is worked out, not your forte anyway, like pastry it needs a light touch or it ends up slabby.
When reading the Newsweek article by Lisa Miller (“What Would Jesus Do”) I was struck by the fact that she asserted that the incidence of abuse in the Catholic Church matches that of the general rate. On one hand, that would be expected. On the other hand, in the case of priests, we expect better (or did). After all, they are supposed to be screened, trained and followers of a moral code. Of course, the same can be said of Boy Scout leaders, etc.
“On the other hand, in the case of priests, we expect better (or did).”
Well, their standards are much higher. They’re not allowed to have sex at all. It’s like telling a man to go without food for a month. At that point, some men will eat dog crap.
But there seems to be something other than celibacy as the main factor. After all, what one would expect from a lapse in celibacy on the part of a man would be that he would have sex with a woman (or a man, in the case of a gay guy).