Obama promised that the health care discussion would be held out in the open, but the folks in Congress are pushing to keep the dealing behind closed doors.
Some might suspect that the folks in Congress want to have secret discussions because they intend to make morally questionable deals that they would rather not have the voters know about. Of course, other reasons can be given.
One commentator asserted that such talks could be held in the open if Americans were more politically mature. It is interesting to speculate about what this might mean.
One possibility is that most Americans are on par with children. Just as adults sometimes need to discuss matters that are for adults away from the ears of children, so too must Congress discuss matters in private. In the case of adults, this is rather reasonable. After all, children typically lack the maturity and knowledge to make reasonable judgments about some adult matters and it can be for the best if such discussions take place without children being present.
A less extreme interpretation is that while most adult Americans are not on par with children, Americans lack the political sophistication to understand and accept the realities of politics.
Of course, there is the obvious question of whether or not the American public lacks the maturity and knowledge to a degree that justifies such paternalism. If it does, then Congress could be justified in such secrecy. After all, the ignorance and immaturity of the public could lead them to fail to see the necessity of the sort of deal making that is required to create viable solutions in the realm of law.
There are some good reasons to believe that this is the case. For example, consider the birthers, the tea party folks, Code Pink and others. The shouting and poor reasoning of such people tend to show a distinct lack of political maturity. These folks do not, of course, represent all Americans and hence to justify secrecy based on them would seem to be unfair to the majority.
Another way to look at this alleged immaturity is to see it not as immaturity but as a moral concern. Interestingly, holding to moral expectations is often cast as a form of immaturity or of being unrealistic. While it is certainly tempting to believe that ethical standards should be swept aside by political realities, it should be carefully considered. After all, is what is presented as mature and realistic really mature and realistic or is this simply a way of hiding misdeeds under a mask?
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When someone starts advocating secrecy due to Americans’ supposed lack political maturity you can be sure that they’re fully in support of whatever group is in the majority in government – in this case Obama and his Liberals’ punitive and destructive regime.
Such advocates of secrecy are enemies of America and should – with extreme prejudice – be dealt with accordingly.
Yet another broken campaign promise. On the evidence, “hope and change” is really “bait and switch.”
In general, government business should be conducted in an open and transparent manner, with some exceptions for military and covert operations.
Don’t omit oval office meetings with busty White House interns and veeps meeting with oil company execs and compassionate conservatism.
You sound like an intellectually superior and mature political adult that knows what is best for us despite our wishes. Maybe you should run for office. The excuses for their horrid ethical behavior keep coming.
Here is what most Americans think…
http://www.moonbattery.com/democrats.jpg
From 2000 to 04 it was Republicans to the voting majority in the country Screw you. Gore won the popular vote by a margin greater than the total number of people who voted for another entire candidate – Pat Buchanan! I blame Our Unconstitutional Constitution for that little f-up.
Were the people asked whether they wanted Medicare Part D? Totally unfunded. Read this from John Anderson “Follow the Money” (Scribner). It’s the tale of Thomas D. DeLay and his role in the passage of the Medicare Prescription Drug Act. Not a pretty picture, even by DeLay standards. The final House vote, normally limited to 15 minutes, was held open for almost three hours (from 3 a.m. until 5:50 am.), while DeLay and his leadership posse buttonholed wayward Republicans. To quote from the book: “Even Republicans were appalled.” Republican Congressman Walter Jones reported seeing “a woman–a member of the House–a lady–crying.” Oh, and the chief strategist for the “Doughnut Hole” legislation: Big Pharma lobbyist–and former DeLay chief of staff–Susan Hirschmann.”
At least there’s a legit 10 mmmmmillion popular vote winner in there now who also got twice the electoral votes for watever they’re worth.Whether the Dem plan is right or wrong and it seems to be wrong for so many reasons at least Reps and their supporters should have the decency to admit their crass hipocrisy here. But they won’t do that anymore than Palin will admit she lied about believing there was an Iraq al-Quaeda connection. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/13/sarah-palin-iraq-911/ It’s just not in their genes.:(
No Moonbat can have a political conversation without speaking of Srah Palin.
People like you made her as famous as she is.
Sure.
Did people ask for Social Security, Prohibition, the Fed, welfare, the UN…etc?
I am not sure what this has to do with politics behind closd doors currently. Oh my gosh about Sarah Palin! There is a mistake. Obama’s transperancy, no lobbying and no pork in his time as president are absolut undeniable country effecting lies. Sarah Palin is important to what? Your insanity?
Let’s see. I’ll have to research this. In 1917- 18 the 18th amendment. No way in hell given constitutional reqmts. an amendment gets passed in this country unless the people want it. The amendment was repealed because the people really wanted it repealed.Congress (elected representatives of the people like the elected representatives who passed Medicare Part D) passed the Federal Reserve Act.They haven’t unpassed it yet. Social security. In the house and senate only 20 republicans voted against it at the time. That’s fewer than voted against Franken’s Blackwater bill!The UN must be living a blessed existence in this world. Despite objections by some not many it has not been overthrown or disabled by “people who didn’t ask for it.” In short, threr’s no sign the people and their representatives didn’t want the above. If they come to not want them later, like prohibition–they repeal them.
About sweet Sarah. Moonbats wouldn’t even know who Palin is if wingnuts hadn’t needed a hail mary pass in the 08 campaign.
Off topic. I responded to the link in the other guy’s post.Oh sorry, you’re the other guy. If we’re off topic blame you. I think the Cheney/big oil meeting reference is relevant. And the Medicare Part D ref.
Yes Medicare Part D was put in place by a bunch of Left moving Republicans that have forgotten their roots. It was bad I agree. You act like I am trying to defend th Republican party but the truth is George Bush was a Dem with a few Republican leanings(abortion, stem cell research). My point is that this administration promised an ushering in of a new enlightenned era of transperancy and honesty and it has been the opposite. The OP’s theory is that the American people are like children and immature politically. They cannot be trusted with the truth. I think not but in today’s age it is much harder to get away with lies. They no longer have a death grip on all media and feed us our manipulated info by I.V. drip. That is why this preposition is even being made in the first place. The Democrats and some if not most Republicans do not want the American people involved except to keep voting them into office.
Sarah could not have saved John McCain as he was Democrat light. He was doomed to fail and there was so much Bush hate even though most could not articulate whay they hated him. It was time for the Republicans to lose and that is good. Other than the economy being run into the ground this has all been a good wake up call for the country. Everyone can see that Progressive Liberalism is all about taking Liberty away.
Practicaly the whole party was left moving? 25 house republicans voted against the final passage of Part D out of the House. They were the only house republicans in 2003 who were on your reservation! Where was the widespread Rep outcry then? Now the party wants back. Time to rewrite history. Good Bush/Cheney didn’t make any promises about secrecy/honesty/transparecy/privacy, no? And you might want to read this before you accuse this administration of driving the economy into the ground. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/15/825362/-Taking-the-Axe-to-Rove?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
Give it a read if you get a chance.BTW.When I want drips I go to Fox. Beck is about as big a drip as you’ll find on TV. Well see how he stands up to palin.
Both parties are awful. The only thing to do is to hold your nose and vote for the one which will do the least long term damage.
This one currently is absolutely wrecking the economy. Stimulus for ‘shovel ready jobs’? Yeah right. Current unemployment rate 10.5%, current construction unemployment rate 22% and current government job unemployment rate….is a whopping 3.6%. This stimulus bill has been nothing but a boat anchor for the economy and a way to shuffle money to their friends and political allies. This is the single biggest fleecing in US history and we the people are on the hook for it.
You may be right. Or wrong. But of course you would have done it right. No doubt. Right hand up to God and hope to die right. Out-of-the-recession-already right. 8.5%-unemployment-already right. Congrats on having perfect hindsight and foresight. A rare combo.
An 8 year old could have done it better and why the attacks on God? If I didn’t know any better I woul think you an incarnation of Biomass. Yes 8.5% and it is going in the wrong direction. If we did the unemployment rate like we did 80 years ago(U6 rate instead of th U3 rate) then we are actually at 17.5%. You totally missed my point though. The government which takes 3 people to do one person’s job is doing just fine. It takes private sector money to support government jobs. The current Dem government is making it harder for businesses while raping them aka Saul Alinsky style.
“But it is not enough for the organizer to be in solidarity with the people. He must also, said Alinsky, cultivate unity against a clearly identifiable enemy; he must specifically name this foe, and “singl[e] out”[44] precisely who is to blame for the “particular evil” that is the source of the people’s angst.[45] In other words, there must be a face associated with the people’s discontent. That face, Alinsky taught, “must be a personification, not something general and abstract like a corporation or City Hall.”[46] Rather, it should be an individual such as a CEO, a mayor, or a president.
Alinsky summarized it this way: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it…. [T]here is no point to tactics unless one has a target upon which to center the attacks.”[47] He held that the organizer’s task was to cultivate in people’s hearts a negative, visceral emotional response to the face of the enemy. “The organizer who forgets the significance of personal identification,” said Alinsky, “will attempt to answer all objections on the basis of logic and merit. With few exceptions this is a futile procedure.”[48]”
The banks are now being made the enemy. Those ‘fat cats’ on Wall Street. Who easier to hate than the rich. The banks that have paid back their stimulus money will soon be made to pay onerous taxes on top of what they have paid to help support the failed government projects(GM, Fannie’,Freddy’…etc.). The ones that are again succeeding re being punnished. The ones that are failing are getting wealth redistributed to them even though they should feel.
But yes, I could have done it better. It has nothing to do with hind sight as I have been saying how since before the current president even took office and even on this blog. You can ask the OP DR. himself.
Dude, don’t get your panties all in a bunch. It’s like when we were kids, remember? I was just asking you to put your right hand up and swear to die that you’re absolutely sure you would have done better. Attacking God. What the hell? I didn’t miss your point. You didn’t make one. All you did was state some stats then lay on some opinions. You’ve got balls, I’ll say that. You really know for certain that if the big banks and GM and Chrysler had been allowed to fail everything would have been ok. Yet you say you’re not claiming hindsight or foresight.LOL Oh. What the hell is an OP? Some kind of nighttime soap opera.
OP means original poster.
lol, GM and Chrysler did fail. Now they are on government controlled welfare paid for by tax payers and successful businesses.
Well, they did not fail completely. What I propose is a term “unfailed” that can be used like the term “undead.” An undead being is one that is dead, but still animate. An unfailed company is one that has failed, but is still kept going by taxpayer money. Heck, I like this so much I’ll do a blog on it.
If the government has to bail you out then you are doing it wrong….
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/148
I’ve got an idea. Get government out of the way. Let’s legalize monopolies.That way every corporation left standing will be so big its failure can bring the nation to its knees. One oil company. One bank. One auto company. Survival of the fittest. One food giant. I don’t see what your link has to do with anything but it’s funny as hell if it’s really legit. It’s so simple to edit this kinda thing. Different words. Different face. Know what would be really funny? Palin’s picture behind the words.
In fact she looks kinda like Palin with contacts and few pounds on her.
What is it about Palin that provokes such reactions? To me she is a plucky underdog who is out there winging it and doing pretty well all things considered. If you look at most other prominent women–Hillary, Nancy, Arianna–they were all raised to prominence by their rich and powerful husbands, but because they are lefties nobody mentions this.
What is it? Mostly her rampant mediocrity. About a quart of that. Add a quarter cup of mendacity. Also, she willingly allowed herself to be drawn into that campaign. She should have realized she was totally unprepared. Some may call that innocence. Some would call it greed for the spotlight. I’ll call it a scarily obvious lack of self awareness. So add 2 cups of “lack of self awareness” That’s all a time proven recipe for two loaves of reaction provoking that should serve the endless multitudes for some time. Yes,she’s got lips and hips and legs and spunk aplenty. Same’s true for some riders of the pole. The three traits I’ve mentioned should be of more importance to lefties righties and indies all things considered.
Here’s a different picture. They really fail. Which they didn’t. Thousands and thousands of workers in GM and Chrysler factories and in suppliers’ factories would have been thrown out of work. ND. Take that and the Rep. just say no stance on stimulus. And there go your chances of lowering that 10% unemployment rate.
I’m not using foresight or hindsight, just insight and a crystal ball. Thanks for the headsup about OR.
Thank goodness the governemnt is looking into this transperancy problem. Joe is on the case….lol.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/01/joe-biden-update.html
Great headline!
This is a little more on topic I guess.
http://knowyourmeme.com/i/33085/original/capitalism.jpg?1262451281
It is interesting to see the red line started right after Clinton left office. And where it was when Bush left office. Then to consider the possibility that the blue line grows in 09 because Obama’s cleaning up the mess that started in the Bush administration. A problem that started in the Bush administration. http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&q=unemployment+rates+US Note that unemployment was pretty low until the end of W’s first year. And sprouted like mold in your bathroom in his last year.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/02/economist_and_simpsons